Why is Linda Lavin hated?

Was she as big a bitch as they say?

Have you heard her “sing”?

She was apparently unpleasant and demanding. That might mean she was unpleasant and demanding, or it might mean she refused to suck a cock. It was the seventies.

Didn't she drive Polly Holiday and whoever replaced her from Alice due to her cuntiness?

I for one like her, even her singing voice, it’s very soothing. Back when Napster was a thing, I actually downloaded the Alice theme song!

Funniest thing -- the saddest part -- is, I never knew why.

Her real secret to aging well is endless plastic surgery

She was stellar on her episode of Rhoda.

I thought Holliday left Alice because of the mania for spinoffs of successful sitcoms in that era. That golden-goose mentality led to the dilution of some strong ensemble casts, and many of the spinoffs were forgettable and didn't last.

Diane Ladd (who'd been Oscar-nominated for originating Flo in the Scorsese movie) was the initial replacement as a new waitress named Belle, but she only lasted a season. Ladd was painted as the villain in most accounts, for clashing with everyone. Then Celia Weston was brought on as still another new waitress, and she remained for the rest of the run.

I guess it's possible that Lavin and Holliday feuded, though. It would explain why Holliday never guest starred, nor did she return when there was an opening post-Ladd. If they didn't get along, they prefigured SJP and Kim Cattrall. Ensemble female-led show with a main character who's first among equals. Co-star who plays the "saucy," quotable character and gets a lot of attention. Resentment ensues. Holliday was definitely the breakout star of Alice, and it wasn't as good once she left.

I'm more popular than that cunt!

At least Ron was able to trade up to Jessica Walter.

That was some recompense from the "Lavin Years."

Andrea Martin’s Linda Lavin is one of the best celebrity impressions ever

Because her perceived arrogance and cunty-ness far exceed her talent.

Because her coffee was worse than Mel's

R14- Second City should have been called THIRD Rate City- It was never 👎 a funny show.

Alice was such a weird movie-to-TV-show transition. Even though both versions had Vic Tayback (and ultimately Diane Ladd, for a while), the tone was so different. I still don't see how anyone watched that movie and thought, "This has potential as a sitcom!" It's like if someone today made a sitcom out of Nomadland, with a laugh track while the character searches her van for the shitting bucket.

But it ran for nine seasons, so what do I know?

Ellen Burstyn and Linda Lavin were completely different in the main role. The big plot thread running through both versions was that the character wants so badly to realize her dream of being a singer, and she's still holding on to that dream while doing other things like waitressing. Burstyn was very poignant, because she was just a fairly attractive woman who could "get through" a song. There was nothing special about her as a musical performer. With Lavin, even though she's not to my taste, I never forgot I was watching a Broadway veteran. (Still, I recall one episode in which she performed in a show and was crushed when the local reviewer described her as "adequate.")

R20- Say what you will about Linda Lavin but she has FAR MORE talent than that red haired woman with the Nicholas Bradford hairstyle on that other CBS sitcom.

I'm thinking Bonnie Franklin, with the reference to a Nicholas Bradford hairstyle.

Perhaps Linda should have went bra-less under her waitress uniform.

God knows, Howland went commando under her's.

Polly Holliday and Fannie Flagg do [italic]Match Game '77.[/italic] Poor Polly is positively recoiling from Gene Rayburn.

I wonder if Linda got a case of the giggles when Polly's spin off flopped. I wonder if she called up Polly and asked her to return to the show.

Wasn't Polly also thought to be "difficult'?

What was the premise of her spinoff?

R27, the premise was Flo moving back to Texas to open her own country-and-western bar, Flo's Yellow Rose.

Polly Holliday has had a love–hate relationship with Flo. The character made her famous, but as a stage actress she could reportedly come across snooty on set. According to friends and acquaintances who've met her (she graduated from my alma mater), she's come to resent fans who think she's just like Flo in real life. (She's actually a rather chilly Southern-belle type.)

I get a LESBIAN vibe from her in spite of her being married to a man.

I had that hussy's number from the outset.

the best parody that I think tells the story of what she might be really like.....

squinty eyeballs and over singing.

That SCTV is really funny.

Broadway grooms divas. Look at Betty Buckley and Patti Lupone, both of whom feel that television work is beneath them and expect to be treated like royalty on the set. Linda Lavin is the same way.

I preferred her when she used to be sad... used to be shy.

I wonder if the ghost of Phillip McKeon ever haunts her while she's sleeping.

I have firsthand knowledge of what a bitch she is.

I saw her in The Lyons on Broadway and we were both eating at the same restaurant after the show. She walked by my table and I told her I enjoyed the show. She could not have been more dismissive, basically waving me off like some grand lady who was annoyed to be acknowledged by a nobody.

I have hated her ever since.

She made me clean her dressing room toilet.

[quote]She walked by my table and I told her I enjoyed the show. She could not have been more dismissive.

I would have told her to get me another coffee and the dessert menu.

Not even a simple Thank You. That's pretty bad.

[quote] [R20]- Say what you will about Linda Lavin but she has FAR MORE talent than that red haired woman with the Nicholas Bradford hairstyle on that other CBS sitcom.

I was waiting to see how many posts until there would be a reference to Bonnie Franklin. Answer: 21. On DataLounge, every Linda Lavin thread must mention Bonnie Franklin, and every Bonnie Franklin thread must mention Linda Lavin. The two are inseparable.

R27. Polly Holliday is a massive CUNT

Yes, but Polly is a good actress. Linda is a cunt and she stinks.

Helloooooooooo! Remember me? It's me, Linda Lavin. I think you forgot to invite me to Sondheim's birthday extravaganza. I'm available to do a song. Please add me to the list.

The Celia Weston years are when the show becomes a glorified ego trip for Lavin. She started that grotesque sitcom trope of playing a dual character, with that awful Russian lady. And poor Vera's wedding, where more time is spent on Linda's number (in a huge close up) than Vera's nuptials.

[quote]I thought Holliday left Alice because of the mania for spinoffs of successful sitcoms in that era. That golden-goose mentality led to the dilution of some strong ensemble casts, and many of the spinoffs were forgettable and didn't last.

It was both. Flo was a huge audience favorite, and the tension with Linda and Polly was making it a difficult environment. Linda was not happy with Polly's success.

When Linda won the Golden Globe (around the time that Polly left to do her own show) Linda and Beth are sitting up front, while Polly and Vic (who were very good friends off camera) were sitting in the back. Not the usual seating for the Globes, where TV casts sit together.

Doctors have now revealed that Ron Liebman & Jessica Walter's recent deaths can both be attributed to the rare, but toxic and contagious, Lavinpox that spread through Hollywood in the 1970s.

she and Tyne Daily are heavily overrated

No way. Tyne Daly is a terrific actress. There is no comparison.

Linda Lavin was really really good as Alice Hyatt. I cannot imagine anyone else in that role. Forget about the movie, okay? It’s too different for comparison. I liked Linda in dual roles as Vera’s landlady. Funny shit!

Diane Ladd paled in comparison to Polly Holiday as Belle and Flo. I didn’t like the character Belle.

Celia Weston was good as Jolene Hunnicutt. Jump back!

Beth Howland was Vera Gorman. Great acting and casting.

Vic Tayback was Mel Sharples. Great acting and casting. Martha Raye was hysterical as his mom Carrie!

Apparently Beth BHowalnd left behind a memoir entitled "Mel, That Bitch, & Me," but her estate dares not publish it until everyone from "Alice" is dead.

On June 27th, Linda celebrated her most recent solo album, "Love Notes," in a concert at Manhattan's Birdland Jazz Club. She was joined by her longtime collaborator, pianist and singer Billy Stritch, who led a band including Aaron Weinstein on violin and mandolin.

Who wants to hear this 84-year-old attempt to sing?

Some theatre types think she’s a good actress. They also like Sutton Foster and that actress who stunk up Designing Women for its last season.

R55 As an actress everything Tyne Daly does is the same. She plays herself. I know when she's about to pause in a sentence.

On a positive side, when her father (James Daly) died and left everything to his male partner, she would not take sides with her mother, divorced from Dad, who thought she was entitled to the money. Mom last the case.

She isn’t hated by me. Alice was one of my favorite sitcoms growing up.

Fuck, she looks like Voldemort in that picture!

R63 here. I typed too quickly, should have been "Mom LOST the case."

Someone who used to work on the set of Alice once told me that Martha Raye couldn't stand Linda. Every time Martha would guest star disagreements would erupt into shouting matches between the two.

[quote] Martha Raye couldn't stand Linda. Every time Martha would guest star disagreements would erupt into shouting matches between the two.

Linda and Martha may not have gotten along, but together they gave us 2 of the finest minutes ever to air on television.

Martha Raye used to scare me on this show.

She always looked so sinister and then she hooked up with that kooky queen who was always going on about fucking her.

Martha would take out her dentures and give the crew guys on "Alice" gumjobs. They always looked forward to her guest appearances.

Marta was Carrie Sharples.

She wore dentures and was an old loudmouth bitch

I heard Linda flashes her beaver when she sings these days!

I used to hear that Raye was a splendid jazz singer, but I was skeptical until I listened to her early records. She was terrific.

That clip posted at R68 is everything that was wrong with 1970s sitcoms.

I wonder if Linda Lavin ever slapped anyone on set. I could totally see that happening.

That blows me away R74 ! I only ever knew her as a loud,fat old lady. She sounds perfect for that era,and she was quite lovely . Color me shocked !

I’m watching season 2 of Alice now!

[quote] I heard Linda flashes her beaver when she sings these days!

Linda and Martha practically WERE flashing beaver in the clip at R68. My God!

That SCTV skit was no funnier the second time it was in this thread than it was the first time. I don't think I've ever seen an SCTV skit that is as funny as people claim it is.

R58 & R63 -- thanks for providing some counterpoint. I heartily agree.

That being said, I relish every LL thread that comes along, even though she gets ripped to shreds.

Yeah,I loved Alice too. Tommy mostly,but Flo was a kick.

I’m watching the Christmas episode in season 2! They’re all in a semi

Linda never gave anyone a semi.

[quote] Polly Holliday is a massive CUNT

She just grew tired of fans yelling "Kiss my grits!", or repeatedly asking her to say the catchphrase. Who wouldn't be a cunt to these people?

R85 Flo just asked Alice to switch seats with her in the semi cab because her fanny was asleep.

The first season theme was THE best.

They could revive the series and just hire back the FIRST Tommy.

Is there a sitcom in history, except maybe Lucy, where one of the supporting players didn't become the breakout hit and pissed off the star?

Our Alice Hyatt was good as Meadow's shrink on The Sopranos.

I never warmed to Jolene, even though Celia is a great character actress, and has more than made her mark in the years since Alice. Diane was a perfect replacement for Polly, who was for all practical purposes, was irreplaceable. Even Diane couldn’t stand to be on little more than one season. Linda started pulling her diva bullshit with her, so she left. Polly warned Diane with an ominous good luck and Diane found out real quick what that meant. Vic, Beth and Celia when she joined, learned not to steal Linda’s thunder, and that’s why they were on the show for so long. I liked Lavin on the show, but everyone knew it was hell behind the scenes.

A rather prominent chin area.

[quote] I wonder if Linda Lavin ever slapped anyone on set. I could totally see that happening.

That was my trick, bitch!

Jolene Hunnicutt was a fave. She often spoke about Granny Gums.

Mel went to Alice’s house for brunch and hurt his back changing her water cooler bottle. He wore his Farrah Fawcett t-shirt. Now he’s schlepping on her foldaway couch until he can walk.

Every third episode, the writers were forced to conjure up a scenario so Linda could show off her singing and dancing talents.

I think Beth Howland was just happy to have a steady gig and a nice paycheck, so she stayed out of Linda's way.

After the cancellation of Flo, Polly went blind and begged her sister Rose to come take care of her.

^ and she did it in the worst imitation of a Minnesota accent you ever heard in your life!

Alice was the Barbra Streisand of Mel’s Diner

^ I don't know about that...but somebody sure stole a lot of my tips while I was working with her.

I know about that r102 because that was a line from the script I read in 1977.

Stupid fucker

Linda and Beth Howland lived near each other, and carpooled to the set together for the first several seasons. But Beth was a chainsmoker, and eventually Linda couldn’t stand showing up to work reeking of ciggies. And Valerie Harper told me that she and Beth were roommates in Hollywood when they were dancing in the movie version of “L’il Abner” in 1959, and would take the bus down Melrose Avenue at the crack of dawn every morning to get to the Paramount Lot. And that Beth was just as lovably neurotic as she was as Vera on Alice and Amy in Company in real life. Every morning, she would be in a panic that they’d be late, while Valerie, who was as laid back and funny as Rhoda, would have to calm BH down. That same conversation, VH told that she introduced the word “Feeb” to Jim Brooks, as it was a term she and her friends used growing up in NJ. Hence, The “Feeb” episode of MTM.

^ Don't believe everything you read in a script R103

I don't know if it was because those polyester uniforms held a lot of odors or what...

but Alice Hyatt didn't smell so fresh...if you know what I mean.

Per IMDB:

Why did Flo leave Mel's diner?

Allegedly Linda Lavin had trouble getting along with her co-stars, which is why Polly Holliday and Diane Ladd left the show.

^^^ ALSO Diane Ladd wasn’t popular with fans of the show as Belle.

[quote]But Beth was a chainsmoker, and eventually Linda couldn’t stand showing up to work reeking of ciggies.

Linda also smoked back then.

R108 the show ranked number 7 for Ladds full season. That’s higher than more than half of Hollidays four seasons. Belle wasn’t as entertaining as Flo, but they would’ve kept Diane if she agreed to stay.

At what age is she too old to sing that she's a new girl in town?

Did the details of the death of the actor who played Tommy ever come to light?

Maybe it was that turtle's beak of a mouth?

She is one ugly and unpleasant looking bitch.

I wonder how Linda was not nice on the set? Was she Cybil crazy or Roseanne crazy? She's worked steady for all these years, so someone must like her.

That is a publclity photo. Linda Lavin will be starring as Lady Elaine Fairchild in the live action movie of "Mr. Roger's Neigborhood"

She was on B Positive wich sadly got canceled. I liked it a lot. They always cancel shows i like.

R120 your shit numbers do not reflect how the fans of the show felt. It’s common knowledge that Belle was unpopular. She was completely overlooked during flashbacks during the season 9 finale.

The Flo series initially was a big hit as a spring replacement series, but CBS may have overestimated the audience's devotion to the character. In Flo's first full season, they moved it to Saturdays, first at 8:30, then at 9, and Saturday was a strong ABC night at the time. The Love Boat, one of Flo's direct competitors, was in the top 5. Flo did a fast fade and wasn't renewed.

Another popular supporting character with the same name, Florence, the maid on The Jeffersons, had an unsuccessful spinoff at the same time. Florence left George and Weezy's employment to manage a hotel. But Marla Gibbs just returned to the parent series when Checking In flopped after four episodes.

Sometimes characters who are amusing in support lose something as the main attraction, and networks never learn that lesson. Joey Tribbiani is a more recent example.

I wanted Geoffrey Lewis on Flo to do bad things to me.

Like most smart actors, Marla had it negotiated into her contract that if Checking In didn't make it, she should be brought back to the mothership. The same thing happened with Joanie and Chachi spin-off of Happy Days and the Sandra Clark spin off of 227. I guess Polly's agent didn't negotiate that for her.

R119 I had a thing for Geoffrey Lewis too ! We must have been some hard up baby gaylings !

[quote] Another popular supporting character with the same name, Florence, the maid on The Jeffersons, had an unsuccessful spinoff at the same time. ... Sometimes characters who are amusing in support lose something as the main attraction, and networks never learn that lesson.

"The Ropers" was yet another example of this, also around the same time. There was a whole slew of failed spinoffs in the late '70s and early '80s, but the networks never learned.

OMG ! I had NO idea he was Juliette Lewis father !!!!

The Ropers got screwed, but Mr. Furley was just so great. There was just no way to integrate them back into the regular show.

At least Polly got to be in Gremlins post-Alice.

Many people who grew up in the '80s and '90s probably know her better as the mean Mrs. Deagle from Gremlins. She was perfect in the role.

[quote] That SCTV skit was no funnier the second time it was in this thread than it was the first time. I don't think I've ever seen an SCTV skit that is as funny as people claim it is.

I didn't post that clip, but I think it and SCTV in general are hilarious.

You, on the other hand, are a sour bitch.

R125- Let's not forget her pivotal role as Gloria Chaney in Mrs. Doubtfire (1993)

R117 then how do you explain the ratings mastermind? I’m not making these up they are Nielsen numbers. Anyone cast was going to be less than what Holliday brought to the character of Flo. With Weston the ratings got progressively worse. Ladd was a bigger name than the unknown Weston at the time and had the cache of being in the film. There was no reason to change yet another waitress in a little over one year if Ladd had stayed.

Isn’t the real question Why is Sada Thompson hated?

I don’t think so r125. I’m in the generation you mentioned and I don’t remember her being in Gremlins. Flo was her namesake role

And another pressing question…how did someone as stupid as Geoffrey Lewis have a career? Nice rug, Geoffrey.

If I had a gun with two bullets and was in a room with Joyce Bulifant and Saddam Hussein, I’d shoot Joyce twice.

Beth Howland “lovably neurotic”? More like insufferable.

^^No that’s you, insufferable

Linda Lavin in Broadway Bound, one of the greatest performances I've ever seen.

"Linda Lavin is a hateful and talentless cunt" is one of those Datalounge canards that exhausts me.

"Cunt" I'll believe. But I've rarely seen attacks on her talent from people who have seen her onstage.

Having seen her in THE TALE OF THE ALLERGIST'S WIFE (twice), COLLECTED STORIES, THE NEW CENTURY, the D.C. tryout of the FOLLIES revival, OTHER DESERT CITIES (Off-Broadway) and THE LYONS, I'm here to tell you that she's a fantastic stage actress. Not only does she have razor-sharp comic timing, but she can be mesmerizing in a serious vein. (The Act 1 curtain of OTHER DESERT CITIES was riveting in her hands -- but much less so on Broadway with the talented but overpraised Judith Light.)

Whether she is or isn’t a cunt is besides the point I guess. She’s worked non stop on tv, including other series, and Broadway for 37 years after Alice ended. So whatever she’s doing is clearly working for her. With Alice, she might’ve been cunt extraordinare because she really felt it was the Linda Lavin show, but I’ve heard no horror stories of her beyond Alice.

R139 Linda looks constipated

Bonnie slapped me moments before that picture was taken.

Can any man watch that clip at r68 and not become gay?

Whenever Linda Lavin tries to REALLY act, she rolls up her tongue and over-enunciates and starts talking with a weird Irish accent!

I believe she's a nice Jewish girl from the Bronx, yet when she basically had to fucking PLAY HERSELF in Neil Simon's vastly overpraised "Broadway Bound" she had a weird Irish accent!

Naturally she won a Tony. She was awful, trust me.

R109, Linda may have been a casual smoker back then (many actors were, with notable exceptions of Cloris Leachman and Tony Randall,) but nowhere as near as rabidly as Beth Howland. They wrote it into a episode of “Alice,” and her death from lung cancer says it all. Four packs a day for sixty years. And R143, the Bronx? Linda’s from Portland, ME. I distinctly remember her doing the Irish brogue in Gypsy, but never in Broadway Bound, and I saw it many times, because my friend, the late, great Phil Sterling played her husband. You want to talk about lousy in Bway Bound, let’s discuss Joan Rivers, who laughed at her own punchlines.

Linda was still smoking in the late 90s. She talked about it in interviews.

Joan got good notices in BB, r144.

Linda is still smoking ... HOT!

[quote]Linda looks constipated

That's weird, because I remember her sharting a lot on the set of "Alice".

We were always having to replace her waitress uniform.

Would Linda have made a better Ann Romano?

Hitler would have made a better Ann Romano.

Linda may have been a cunt years ago, but friends who know her now adore her.

Polly Holliday is a goddess, and I don't care how chilly she really is.. Flo is an iconic Texas character on-par with JR Ewing.

And this thread is everything I fucking love about DL.

Even the gremlins treated me better than Linda!

And don't tell me Alice Hyatt didn't steal tips...

I worked at that diner for years - and my tips never went missing until that gal from New Jersey showed up!

I had to ride the bus!

[quote]She just grew tired of fans yelling "Kiss my grits!", or repeatedly asking her to say the catchphrase. Who wouldn't be a cunt to these people?

The bane of the sitcom star's existence. I read an interview with Susie Essman, who has played Susie Greene on Curb Your Enthusiasm for 22 years now. She said people are always coming up to her in the supermarket or on the street and asking her to be the character and call them a "fat fuck" or "four-eyed fuck" or otherwise curse them out. She seems to have a good attitude about it, but I'm sure it gets old. And Curb is a cable "niche" show with a modest audience, nothing like Alice had in the dark days of so few viewing options.

Yeah it's kind of a double-edged sword. You get the fame, the big money and steady work from a series, but you're forever identified with your character and everywhere you go people treat you as if you're that character and want you to "act" for them. I'm sure it's frustrating and annoying when you just want to go about your day and every five minutes somebody is coming up to you and want you to do your whole character for them.

[quote]And Curb is a cable "niche" show with a modest audience, nothing like Alice had in the dark days of so few viewing options.

The numbers that tv shows got back in the days when there were only three networks are astounding now. Even some crappy show on a random night could get as many as 30 million viewers. That is unheard of today.

Linda Lavin = Kate Jackson. The star around whom the show was developed. Beth Howland = Jaclyn Smith. The one who kept her head down and did her thing for the whole run. Polly Holliday = Farrah Fawcett. The breakout star who made an early departure. Diane Ladd = Combination of Cheryl Ladd and Shelley Hack. Same last name, but gone after only one season. Celia Weston = Tanya Roberts. The one who showed up for the decline. Vic Tayback = David Doyle. The token male.

Wouldn't Celia be Cheryl?

Philip McKeon = John Forsythe. The puppet master.

[quote] Beth Howland “lovably neurotic”? More like insufferable.

I couldn’t stand her. Even Linda was more tolerable. Thought she was awful in her two appearances on the MTM show too.

Was Linda horrible on that cop show as well?

Linda Lavin = John Ritter. The star around whom the show was developed. Beth Howland = Joyce DeWitt. The one who kept her head down and did her thing for the whole run. Polly Holliday = Suzanne Somers. The breakout star who made an early departure. Diane Ladd = Jenilee Harrison. Well liked by many but gone after a season and a half. Celia Weston = Priscilla Barnes. The one who showed up for the decline. Vic Tayback = Combination of Norman Fell and Don Knotts. The wisecracking foil for the main three.

^ like John Ritter, there’s a scene in season 2 of Alice where Linda’s balls peek out from her shorts. It had to be edited out for syndication.

R119, R121: I also thought Geoffrey Lewis was hot. Even in my middle school years, I wanted to see him, naked.

Thankfully, r163, Playboy chose not to run Polly Holliday's pre-fame nude photo shoot.

[Quote] Even in my middle school years, I wanted to see him, naked.

And what did you expect his reaction to be? I doubt he had any interest in naked children.

And we still don't have the cause of death for Philip McKeon, a/k/a Tommy?

R167 All the free food he ate from Mel’s Diner finally caught up to him. Flo warned him.

I bet it ate Linda up inside having to watch Howland's "moment" with the straws.

[quote]And we still don't have the cause of death for Philip McKeon, a/k/a Tommy?

His dick was so big that when he got an erection, all the blood left his head and he passed out, hitting his head against the coffee table.

Polly is 85. No "Personal Life" on Wiki. What do we know?

Is Polly a lesbian?

Never married or linked to a man.

This thread made me YouTube the Alice theme song. It's an earworm and now I can't get it out of my head. I couldn't sleep all last night as it kept playing on repeat in my head. I blame that bitch Linda Lavin.

[quote]His dick was so big that when he got an erection

If Bubba Higgins and Albert Ingalls hadn't already turned me gay, that Bloopers and Practical Jokes with Philip McKeon would have.

[quote] Is Polly a lesbian?

If she was she did a good job of convincing us otherwise with Flo who left her trailer door open for every blue collar man in Phoenix.

And LL was a notorious scene stealer. James Coco yelled at her on stage once.

She has a coterie of gays who cater to her, and act like her bitchiness is wisdom of some sort. These gays also cater to numerous other unpleasant "old broads" in the same way, and rabidly defend their narcissistic or abusive behavior. One wonders if they have mommie issues or were raised by alcoholics.

She's a good actress when well cast and her husband appears to be a nice guy. If I know she is going to sing I make an excuse to leave. Quickly.

Upstaging. Fiddling with props etc.

PS: I don't hate her, although I do avoid her. I find the whole bowing down to her by those around her to be tiresome.

She’s obviously not a bad singer/performer but not to everyone’s tastes ( and definitely not to mine). I do recall DL creaming their pants at this performance when this aired during the early days of the pandemic.

The only thing I can recall ever liking her in was in a supporting role on The Good Wife. Her character was cold and all business…and Linda was perfectly cast.

I never understood how Linda Lavin and Bonnie Franklin - two very shrill, overbearing and overall unpleasant personalities without a funny bone in their bodies - each got the lead role in a sitcom.

Although I agree with the above poster that Linda Lavin can be very good in the right dramatic role.

Bonnie Franklin was just fucking unbearable.

R182 Linda invited herself to perform that at Sondheim’s virtual birthday celebration.

She's held up very well for a woman her age. You can't take that from her.

This really is an all-time DL thread. I mean, there are some deep, gossipy dives here. Love it.

I STILL say Lavin did her weird rolled-tongue Irish brogue in "Broadway Bound".

I didn't see her in "Gypsy" and she didn't have the affectation in "The Tale of the Allergist's Wife" in which she was excellent.

Those are the only two plays I've seen her in.

I wonder if she holds the records for having a sitcom with the most variations of the intro theme. There are *16* different vocal takes of "There's A New Girl In Town". The show went completely downhill when she went from fa fa fa fa fa fa to boppity-bop.

I’m a huge Vera Louise Gorman Navik fan.

I didn't think Lavin was bad in Gypsy but that was so long ago and everyone hated her performance so I guess it was terrible.

Holliday was wonderful in the Kathleen Turner Cat but for some reason she wore a ridiculous costume.

Liked Beth Howland in Company and Franklin in Applause. On TV they were unwatchable.

Bonnie did Match Game, but I don't think Linda did.

Linda's guest spot on Santa Clarita Diet was fun

[quote] Was she as big a bitch as they say?

Yes, she was. I did my 15 episode sentence with her.

Dianne Lad pailed in comparson to Beth Holland.

R197 And paled, as well!!

[Quote]If Bubba Higgins and Albert Ingalls hadn't already turned me gay, that Bloopers and Practical Jokes with Philip McKeon would have.

12:56 for your trip down memory lane, r175!

Because she early to bed, early to rise- with scatting at the end.

[quote](Still, I recall one episode in which she performed in a show and was crushed when the local reviewer described her as "adequate.")

Must have been on one of her better vocal days.

Linda's spot as a tough (but Vulnerable!) NY lawyer who's hot for Doug on "Family" would have been greatly improved if she'd sung a couple of showtunes, maybe "Whatever Lola Wants" and "What I Did for Love"...

Ah used tah be sahy-uhdddd, ah used tah be shy-uhhhhh…

Bubba Higgins really made me hot as a young gayling, too.

I always loved the way she ended the theme song with that relaxing "ba -ba -ba-ba- baaaa..."

Because this is Datalonge. We think Mother Theresa was a useless cunt who deserved to die in a grease fire.

R206 Actually Mother Theresa WAS a horrid person

Mel only knew how to cook with a grease fire!

VERA LOUISE GORMAN NAVIK!

She hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Did Linda bully Beth Howland because she was in the original production of Company and Linda was not? I always got that very distinct feeling watching the show. Howland wasn’t acting jittery so much as having nervous tics about Linda lashing out at her unexpectedly at any moment.

“Best Friends For Life”

But their body language says different.

And I can tell Linda is secretly reaching for a knife.

It is curious that Linda Lavin has worked consistently in high-profile projects since Alice's cancellation, while Bonnie Franklin really did nothing significant and when she did perform it was mainly in the regions. Clearly some people must have liked Linda Lavin. Personally, I always found she had a much more likable and warmer presence than Franklin. God Rest her soul, but Bonnie Franklin so often came off as smug and strident. In truth she would probably have done better on Alice and Lavin on ODAAT, as I don't think Alice needed to be nearly as maternal as Ann Romano. Certainly, Burstyn's spin on Alice was that she was rather self-absorbed and not really the most motherly figure.

r196 it's hard to tell which one of those bitches is wearing the most makeup

R162, I bet Diane Ladd would be thrilled to be compared to that great thespian Jenilee Harrison!

"it was mainly in the regions"

What, R214?

Ever hear something described as sounding like a long tail cat in a room full of rockers?

Here are the end credits with Linda caterwauling over the saxophone.

[quote] I bet Diane Ladd would be thrilled to be compared to that great thespian Jenilee Harrison!

Don't knock Jenilee Harrison's acting! Her performance in the "Infinite Dress" infomercial was stunning. And she did it all without a mirror.

R217 'in the regions'= regional theater, i.e. not Broadway or Off-Broadway...

Well Linda's You've Got Possibilities is one of the great cuts from an obc. It really is sensational.

Her real top tip for living well. Blame others. Deflect at any cost.

I should be embarrassed by how much R218's post made me laugh.

Now that you mention it, Lavin could have made a swell Joanne in COMPANY. And if you're mentioning great OBC cuts, let's add her The Boy From . . . from THE MAD SHOW. Not to be equaled.

FWIW it's worth, Annaleigh Ashford has said privately that she loved working with Lavin on that sitcom.

I had a group business dinner with Ladd in the early '90s.

She loudly told the table (not a gay group, btw) that her good friends had found a cure for AIDS and it would be announced imminently.

Batshit.

Crazy.

Why are there 16 recordings?

Remember the episode of Alice where Art Carney dropped by Mel's Diner to sample the chili?

There were no Asian people on Alice. I need an apology for the lack of diversity in 1978.

It was Phoenix and there were no Mexicans. Well, except for the ones Flo sucked off behind Mel's Diner for a little pocket money.

R226 ego, dear. Pure ego.

[quote]She started that grotesque sitcom trope of playing a dual character, with that awful Russian lady.

I only have a dim memory of the awful Russian lady, but I do remember the times she would dress in male drag as a mobster named "Sam Butler," and other characters on the show would actually be fooled.

TV stars back in those days had a lot of power over their shows, they could get away with ridiculous demands. It's not like today where even the biggest stars are told to fuck off and that they're replaceable when they get out of line. Roseanne learned that the hard way, she thought it was still the 90s and she could get away with anything. Times have really changed.

I think I remember hearing that Lavin and Patricia Heaton did not get along at all on their 90s sitcom.

Lavin was grating on Alice. Surprisingly, they got a lot of old Hollywood talent to do the show. Alice had Lucy’s writers for much of the run, Madeleine Pugh and Bob Caroll jr. , I think. It plays very I Love Lucy, in an actors shouting at each other kind of way.

How was she on the set of "Sean Saves the World?"

R219, she's also wearing a half-bra. But you're right--no mirror!

[quote]Wouldn't Celia be Cheryl?

Why? Did her pussy stink too?

Who knew Linda Lavin could arise such passionate opinions?

Linda seems like loads of fun.

Was Linda obsessed with re-recording this theme song again and again? The intro changes three times just within the one season of Diane Ladd.

Apparently they blew the show's budget on Lavin's studio (re)recording time because that show looked CHEAP all 9 seasons

It's funny how Linda recorded eleventy hundred version of the them tune but couldn't even get an album out in the 1970s or 1980s. Even Lynda Carter got an album deal.

R243 Record execs saved people’s ears.

Did she have Alfred Lutter fired?

The official story is that they were thinking of a long run and wanted to go younger on the kid so they could prolong a certain phase with him. Lutter was 13-14 at the time the pilot and first season were shot, and McKeon 11.

How old was the new girl in town Alice Hyatt supposed to be?

There was a 40th-birthday episode for Alice in season 6. Working backward, she would have been 35 in the first season, which is also the age Alice is said to be in the Burstyn/Scorsese movie.

Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday were both born in 1937, but they made a point of making Flo significantly older than Alice. A decade older, I think?

[quote]Did she have Alfred Lutter fired?

She wanted a better-looking actor to play Tawhmee.

She was also dealing with her internalized feelings of prejudice by casting a non-Jewish actor to play her son.

Listening to R240 ...I think of a few things

1. How annoyed the crew must have been as she recorded and re-recorded all those different version of the theme songs - can you imagine the faces they were making behind Lavin's back?

2. Lavin really, really, really wanted to be taken seriously as a singer

3. Linda's vocal coach(es) made a fucking fortune off of Lavin (i.e., that was almost perfect, Linda, now once again, and remember the pauses in-between).

R249 Not so fresh , not freckled face.

[quote]How old was the new girl in town Alice Hyatt supposed to be?

Judging from the smell of her waitress feet...about 90 - 95...

^ BTW, don't ever bend down in the store room near Lavin and catch a whiff of her polyester waitress-crotch...

Oof, I'll NEVER make that mistake again!

R240...conversation in the production booth

"Well, we're contractually obligated to keep re-recording it for her."

"But we're not going to make her voice sound better, no matter how many times we record it."

"Look, why don't we just change up the arrangement a little...so she'll think she's making progress as a vocalist."

[quote]Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday were both born in 1937, but they made a point of making Flo significantly older than Alice. A decade older, I think?

Alice couldn't handle the fact that my grits were buttery, moist, and delicious...

while hers were hard, dried-out, and tasteless.

"I'd really like to do the theme song over again. I'd like it to have more of a disco feel this year, like what the kids are listenin' to. I saw this black girl on TV, Donna Summer? Oh, honey, she was the most. What I'm thinkin' is, I'd like to take that line 'I had to get out and start enjoyin' and give it a kinda sexy growl. Like Donna would do, but from a trained vocalist. What do you think? Could we do it one more time?"

Philip McKeon looked more like Flo than Alice

I may have had one...or 12 unplanned pregnancies.

(But I never gave birth in New Jersey!)

"Yes, Miss Lavin, and may I say you are in spectacular voice today!"

Remember the episode where a customer finds a pubic hair in the brisket? Pure comedy gold!!

Yeah, but I thought it was on a Diet Coke can.

And wasn't that the episode where Clarence Thomas made a guest appearance as creepy stalker?

I wish the show had continued a few more seasons.

I'd loved to have heard Linda's late 80s death metal rendition of the theme or an early 90s rap/hip hop version....

"Yo yo yo... my cracka ass used to be sad..."

There a version or two of the 16 versions of the theme song where I swear you can hear Ms. Lavin inhale and suck the studio monitors right off the wall. It's kind of like Match Game, you can tell which versions were recorded before lunch and the others recorded after lunch.

Someone subtitled the theme with the lyrics, but a little off, based on her vocal inflections. I can’t find it and it is so funny. Does anyone still have that link?

The biggest loss to popular culture is that a reality show was never filmed starring Linda Lavin, Bonnie Franklin, Charlotte Rae, Bea Arthur and Rita Moreno, a'la Big Brother crossed with The Hunger Games.

Five Cunts Enter, One Cunt Leaves.

The corny lounge singer singing on each version just makes the theme seem more terrible. Listening to all of them together is really cringeworthy.

Rita would be the last one standing.

Now you can create your own versions of the theme song at home!

r270 why did you post that link? I've got that motherfucking theme song stuck on loop in my brain and now it's just going to get worse. I'm even scatting the end credit song!! God help me.

[quote]Why is Linda Lavin hated?

The question is, why isn't she hated enough?

[quote]Why is Linda Lavin hated?

Her farts were worse than a bowl of Mel's week-old chili...

Someone told that he saw a Vic Tayback in a bar, drinking heavily, in the late 80s, and he asked for an autograph

Vic scribbled "Stow It" with his autograph on a cocktail napkin.

[quote] Vic scribbled "Stow It" with his autograph on a cocktail napkin.

I would not have budged until he added a "dinghy" after it!

She thought she was cute, and she thought she was the second coming of Lucille Ball. She was neither.

She wasn't even the second coming of Vance.

R276 Oy Vey, a Jewish Easter Bunny, what was she thinking, she was Barbra Streisand doing a Christmas album?

I think the thing that's so irksome about Linda Lavin is that she's always been completely up her own ass about herself. She thinks she's a Streisand-level talent and is very self-important.

Here’s why she’s hated. She posted this today, fondly remembering her short-lived sitcom with DL fave Patricia Heston, and as if that wasn’t bad enough, she mentions that the theme song, in which she scats, was “joyful excellence” if she does say so herself.

She looks like Mrs. Doubtfire here. Ugh.

Christ if you thought the Alice theme was bad the aural abomination at r280 is 1000x worse. You think it's over and then it keeps coming back louder and more obnoxious

Forgive me if this has already been posted - Linda's CBS Sunday Morning profile from a couple years ago. You could tell she was PISSED about not being asked to do the Sondheim tribute concert. She was going to kick the fucking door down if she had to to be a part of it.

[quote]She wasn't even the second coming of Vance.

How dare you, Sir!

How dare you!

[quote]she mentions that the theme song, in which she scats, was “joyful excellence” if she does say so herself.

That gal loved scat more than a farmer who sells pig shit...

and she smelled like it sometimes too!

Why has there never been an Alice porn parody, with Vera and Flo taking Tommy's virginity?

This showed up in my Instagram feed:

This is very exciting!! I'm wondering if you'd like me to sing 'The Boy From…" from 'The Mad Show'?'

I though she was great with "The Boy From..." in the Sondheim tribute. She was more charming than she's ever been (okay, low bar).

She always seems very charming when interviewed but I can see she's also the type to treat somebody who compliments her with a brush off of you are so beneath me contempt alla Streisand.

The Alice theme song has to be the worst TV theme song ever created. Who thought up that stinker?

Has Streisand ever covered "New Girl in Town"?

R277 She wasn’t even the second coming of Kathryn Card. Card looked fresher.

Did Miss Lavin demand that new lyrics be written for the theme song as they changed after the first couple of seasons?

I must admit I like her first rendition of the song, or at least the first half when she sings it pretty straight. She gets a lot out of the line "Going through life blinders on it's tough to see". But every rendition after that gets cheesier, more annoying and more loungy. In a way these more desperate vocals by Lavin on the theme song in later years could be seen as a reflection of how Alice, despite her dreams of wanting to be a professional singer, is getting further and further from her dream, being stuck working at Mel's Diner. But I don't think that was the intent, just an accidental result.

Flo was basically a prostitute.

She rubbed people the wrong way with her own self importance. The sixteen versions of a two minute diddy she turns into a two minute lounge act is a very good example of her nonsense.

[quote] Alice was such a weird movie-to-TV-show transition.

I turned on to Alice on its reruns because I loved the Scorsese film. Ellen Burstyn and Scorsese were both phenomenal. Weirdly enough, I grew fond of watching the cheesy Alice episodes too. Maybe it had something to do with Vic Taybacks forearms effect on gayling me.

Sometimes it sounds like she singing “There’s a new ghoul in town..!”

This thread of useless without clips.

I find her annoying most of the time too but like people said she’s been working CONSTANTLY in TV & stage for 40+ years - and she’s in her 80s and still getting good gigs. She can’t be that difficult - that’s just the reality of the business. It’s not like she’s some great draw or MILF.

There's a neeew girl in tawun..… and she's loo-king gouwaod!

It's only on DL that she's hated. She's well-liked in real life. DLers need someone to bash to feel superior and in the know.

When the theme song reaches that part where Linda just lets loose and soars, my heart leaps and life is beautiful for a moment.

Take some focus off Tommy, and Lavin's desperate attempts to sing on TV, and this show could've easily succeeded as 'Mel's Diner", with no real emphasis on the Alice character.

[quote]The Alice theme song has to be the worst TV theme song ever created. Who thought up that stinker?

The Growing Pains theme song would like a word with you.

r308 Lavin did seem desperate to show off her singing. It was shoehorned into many episodes.

Eh she’s old now. Leave her alone.

What's hilarious/pathetic is that virtually ALL the bashing of Linda Lavin on this site focuses on her work on ALICE. Girls, that show went off the air (after 9 seasons!) in 1985. Since then, she's accumulated dozens of screen credits (mostly TV) and 5 Tony nominations to add to the 1 she had before the sitcom -- 4 of those in Leading categories.

Lucille Ball? Well, of course she is -- and presumably always will be -- the bigger name, historically speaking. But her post-I LOVE LUCY career is a textbook study in diminishing returns. Lavin, by contrast, went on to tremendous successes onstage and continued to win acclaim at (and beyond) the age at which Ball was embarrassing herself with LIFE WITH LUCY. (Well before that, Ball perpetrated the monstrosity of LUCYMAME, when she was *younger* than Lavin at the time of her triumph in THE TALE OF THE ALLERGIST'S WIFE.)

I'm not arguing that Lavin is greater than Ball -- just that mocking her as some egomaniacal hack is silly, especially when in certain respects her career surpasses Lucy's.

Lavin's inflated ego and humorlessness rubs people the wrong way. She's not a stellar-level talent.

As a kid listening to the theme song, I thought "the saddest part" was "the saddest pout." I didn't speak Lavinese yet.

Serious question: Whatever happened to the reboot of this series that was reported on in 2018? Diablo Cody was writing it.

It’s funny, she’s absolutely DL gold when it comes to the various threads, but every single time I’ve been around her, both professionally and personally, she’s been incredibly nice. She loves to joke around and was really engaging with everyone, but I’m sure different days, different moods, like all of us.

[quote] Why is Sada Thompson hated?

Cold as ice and a cunt as well. Not pleasant to work with.

What about Miss Sadie Thompson?

[quote] I'm not arguing that Lavin is greater than Ball -- just that mocking her as some egomaniacal hack is silly, especially when in certain respects her career surpasses Lucy's.

What a stupid take. (Not surprising, coming from you.) Just because someone works a long time (and by the way, Lucy worked nearly up until her death) doesn't mean they are any great shakes as a performer. Lavin's career doesn't begin to touch Lucy's. If Lavin is remembered at all, she's remembered for A- being a cunt and B- Being on a bad 70s sitcom that ran because it was cheap to produce. (And yes, in that order.)

Anything else Lavin has done has been as a journeyman actress at best. And that's all she is. Lucy was a star. Lavin gets work because most women her age are either infirm or dead. It's easy to keep working when there's no one else to hire for the job.

It's not a stupid take. Lavin has had an exceptionally good career, especially her Tony nods. Lucille Ball got stuck and she stagnated.

Will anyone be talking about Linda Lavin 35 years from now?

We vow NEVER to stop talking about Linda Lavin!

It ended in 1985, R321. We were about to get The Golden Girls and Designing Women, so the "sitcom about different types of broad" niche would not remain unoccupied.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 1985 is more than 35 years ago.

I love Lucy ended nearly 70 years ago.

And Ball many decades of nothing afterwards.

Things from a long time ago on Datalounge? I'm shocked.

It can't be all Ezra Miller all the time.

I saw her perform Mama Rose and still to this day, decades later, it strikes me the most egregious celebrity stunt casting and not that of a seasoned Broadway performer. I’ve seen Tyne Daly in multiple shows, someone who I never had any interest watching on TV and she was the consummate Broadway actress and came alive and electric on stage. Lavin seemed like an impediment the rest of the cast was trying to work around.

I note you didn't state consummate Musical Theatre performer because you know Tyne Daly can't sing.

I’ve here seen her in a singing role, that is true.

A friend went to the Tyne Daly(was not really familiar with her from TV) Gypsy and said she barreled through it like a truck driver. I passed. So I went when Lavin did it. I don't remember anything about it really but I remember I didn't walk out. Have had no desire to see it since. I'm one of those people who likes the movie but not enough to own it.

I guess that I should be flattered that R318 has taken note of me as "stupid," since s/he obviously can't read and/or argue logically. I specifically detailed that Lavin hasn't just worked but has received continuous acclaim. Plays have been written for her, mounted for her, scheduled around her availability. She's been nominated and awarded. She's had an outstanding stage career by any standard. The idea that she just gets roles because no one else is available is laughable on its face.

My point was, and remains, that shrugging Lavin off and/or using Lucille Ball as some sort of gold standard are both foolish positions. You're entitled to your opinion, R318. You're not entitled to your own "facts."

R129- There you are wrong.

We love our Miss Sada

[quote] You're not entitled to your own "facts."

I haven't yet seen you present any, just your own opinions.

Here's a fact for you- You're a tiresome cunt.

Lucille Ball was a superstar and continues to be one of the biggest pop culture/entertainment legends to this day. To compare Linda Lavin to her is laughable.

R335, my post at R312 was full of facts. Thanks for confirming that the tiresome cunt is, in fact, you. I'll be hiding your useless posts in the future.

Good, you're a waste of everyone's time.

I’m watching season 3 of Alice

There are interviews with Arthur Laurents where the Rose in Gypsy of 1989 production were said to be considered amongst Shirley MacLaine, Carol Burnett, Liza Minnelli, Patti LuPone (before the Jolson Sings Again feud) and Lainie Kazan.

I love that out of all those names it came to be Linda Fucking Lavin

I never realized Linda Lavin's two greatest professional adversaries were two of Hollywood's most iconic redheads: Lucy....and BONNIE FRANKLIN!

I went to a Linda Lavin concert one time. It was really good.

I agree that LL has gone on to achieve many nice accomplishments post-Alice.

However, it was the sitcom’s attempt to turn her into a lovable, zany leading lady similar to Lucille Ball (complete with ridiculous disguises as showcased in the dozen or so show openings) that stay in people’s minds. And I think the majority of the dislike for her comes from that. Alice should have been the straight woman to more colorful characters such as Flo, Vera and Jolene, but of course Linda wasn’t having any of that.

(Cybill Shepherd did the same thing on her sitcom - insisting to be the “funny”one - and the results in her case were often embarrassing. However, was a splendid straight woman to Bruce Willis on Moonlighting.).

Lavin tried to pull off my wig once in the powder room at Sardi's, but I wasn't having it. She finally picked the wrong redhead to mix with.

I went to a Beth Howland concert one time

I enjoyed that short lived sitcom she did with Raymond's wife.

bah-bah-bah-bah - - - fahhhhh......

[quote]I went to a Beth Howland concert one time

Were there straws?

[quote] At what age is she too old to sing that she's a new girl in town?

Twenty-six.

There was only the ONE Beth Howland concert to go to, bitches.

[quote]Serious question: Whatever happened to the reboot of this series that was reported on in 2018? Diablo Cody was writing it.

It's now passed onto EJ Johnson to star in, and he's likely to make a decision very soon.

I love Linda. She was a cast member of three sitcoms in the past 10 years: Sean Saves the World (bad time slot, NBC never gave it a chance to succeed), 9JKL (absolute wretched CBS shitcom starring God-awful Mark Feuerstein), and B Positive (a total mess but was getting somewhat better). Linda was easily one of the best things about each show!

She wasn’t a new girl in town after the first season. They should’ve just done an instrumental of the theme song there after. Of course Lavin probably threw a fit and coerced the producers to have her do the increasingly crappy versions of it with her cringy vocals.

In Season 3, a producer suggested changing the lyric to "there's an old girl in town," but Linda exploded just like Vera's straws.

Listen to ALL of them and try not to lose your mind.

It's true that Linda and Polly Holliday didn't get along. During rehearsals, Linda would point at Polly and sing to the tune of the Alice theme "there's an old whore in town and her name is FLO!" Polly hated when she did that.

Did Miss Lavin demand the writers give Belle the lame so called catch phrase "Isabelle, my little voice always calls me Isabelle" to ensure Belle and Diane Ladd would not become as popular with the viewers as Flo and Kiss My Grits?

Diane Ladd and Linda didn't get along, according to gossip.

Not a good quality pic, but the Alice cast all glammed up

Linda looking directly at the camera, trying to steal the shot away from Bonnie Franklin. There must've been fireworks backstage after this.

Linda with a young and hot AF Alec Baldwin

Nice try, Linda, but soy la chica nueva en la ciudad!!

Because everything comes back to "Follies": I saw Linda Lavin as Hattie in the 2011 production of "Follies" at the Kennedy Center that briefly transferred to Broadway, headlined by a miscast Bernadette Peters. Linda didn't do the Broadway run, I think because of another commitment. Her "Broadway Baby" was nothing special, but at least she didn't scat during it.

I won't go to the mat for Lavin's "Broadway Baby," R368, but it made more sense to me than Jayne Houdyshell's version on Broadway.

Then again, I'm just glad to have witnessed Mimi Hines' sublime take on the part.

I like the parts where starts a sultry nasally growl….moves to burlesque bump and grind…and then yells the rest of the song like a cheerleader. WTF?

R347 I remember watching that I was probably around 14 at the time - I have no idea why. I mildly enjoyed it though.

And then when Raymond started I remembered Patty Heaton as the “actress from that failed Linda Lavin show”

Alice was a prime example of a mediocre time-slot hit. It was paired with All in the Family/Archie Bunker's Place and The Jeffersons for most of its run.

In the sixth season (after coming in #5 for season five), CBS figured the show might have a following of its own and moved it to Wednesdays to be the tentpole of that night.

The show dropped to the bottom of the ratings, coming in third to Facts of Life and The Fall Guy. CBS moved it back to Sunday, where they got two more seasons out of it. Even in its heyday, Alice was only a show people watched because of the other shows around it.

Don't tell Ortrud Maxwell that, R374. Linda Lavin was bigger than Lucy!!!

There's a new girl in town.

As a mixed-race non-binary trans omnivore, I really can’t watch the show since I don’t see myself represented—and therefore can’t relate to any of the characters. I hope they reboot the series and add a gender minority character so I can enjoy it as well!

Seems like a good price for the pretty L.A. house. The neighboring houses appear to be very close by and their occupants may want to invest in industrial level ear plugs.

[quote]Did Miss Lavin demand the writers give Belle the lame so called catch phrase "Isabelle, my little voice always calls me Isabelle" to ensure Belle and Diane Ladd would not become as popular with the viewers as Flo and Kiss My Grits?

And yet even so, a few later they stole that line for Blanche to use repeatedly on "Golden Girls":

"I said to myself, 'Water Lily' ... That's what I call myself sometimes..."

The Emmys sure hated her.

She only got one nomination for eight seasons of Alice.

And zero nominations for any of her subsequent TV projects.

She is hated for loving! She is hated for loving.

Who is Cathryn Damon and why do we never talk about her?

Unlike Lavin and Franklin, I WON an Emmy.

Cathryn Damon was a wonderful part of one of the best comedy series of all time. She could sing.

Also unlike Linda Lavin.

Cathryn Damon understudied MAME and Vera?! Why isn't she a DL fave?

Cathryn also co-starred with Lizsha in Flora the Red Menace, which supplied Lizsha's first Tony.

Did Cathryn have dat Damon ass?

It's amzing that in R358's reel of every intro of the series (10, I believe), the only shot that is in EVERY SINGLE ONE is Vera and the STRAWS! No wonder Beth Howland carried a box of straws in her purse wherever she went so that she would be ready for the fans.

I do think Alice had a pretty good "prime" in its first four seasons. I don't know how it holds up today, but I wouldn't call it a time-slot wonder. For a while, it was better than average for a '70s workplace sitcom. But a lot of shows in any era keep going and going past their best, and with '70s/'80s sitcoms, examples were thick on the ground.

[quote]However, it was the sitcom’s attempt to turn her into a lovable, zany leading lady similar to Lucille Ball (complete with ridiculous disguises as showcased in the dozen or so show openings) that stay in people’s minds. And I think the majority of the dislike for her comes from that. Alice should have been the straight woman to more colorful characters such as Flo, Vera and Jolene, but of course Linda wasn’t having any of that.

Good observation. Playing the sane "center" (sort of like Courteney Cox on first-season Friends, before they really dialed up Monica's manic/OCD side) would have been playing to a relative strength for Lavin. Tayback, Howland, and Holliday were all stronger in broad comedy than she was, and they were enough "colorful characters" for an ensemble. Alice as the mistress of disguise was horribly unfunny and embarrassing.

[quote]No wonder Beth Howland carried a box of straws in her purse wherever she went so that she would be ready for the fans.

Bonus: If she were in a nonsmoking environment, she could pull one out as a cigarette substitute.

[quote]Her "Broadway Baby" was nothing special, but at least she didn't scat during it.

Oh honey, she scatted in everything...

That's how I learned never to put on a wig without checking it first.

Her side character on Alice was ghastly and terribly unfunny. Almost as bad as her singing.

Would Linda Lavin play Mrs. Brice in FUNNY GIRL?

After listening to Linda's 1 million different variations of the "Alice" theme song:

Tell me you're a mediocre singing talent without telling me you're a mediocre singing talent

Just remember she got paid for every single one of those songs she sang, and she still get residuals every time they're played...

R372, I bet Miss Lavin never did a pre show song with Polly or Diane for the studio audience.

^ Miss Lavin was very much like Miss Cybill Shepherd in that way:

She very much did NOT like to share HER microphone...or HER spotlight.

I suggest you go to www.alicehyatt.com for all things ALICE.

Linda Lavin also played Mrs. Waldwn, Vera Louise Gorman Novak's landlady on the series. i loved her.

Wait, someone help me, did LL play the Shelly Winters role in the Anne Frank play Natalie Portman starred in? I may have blocked that out…

Lavin played "Mrs. Walden" (pronounced by her as MisSHuss VOLden) on a few episodes during the final season.

I believe she was a Holocaust survivor, which for a sitcom, is just really too much.

Ugh, she did play Mrs. Van Daan, she must have chewed up the scenery and overworked that fur coat. It must have been so bad I blocked it out.

Here is a synopsis of the series finale which aired March 19, 1985.

After 9 years of trying, Alice finally gets a recording contract and is moving to Nashville with Travis Marsh. Vera announces she is pregnant and decides to be a full-time mother, Elliott having been promoted from officer to detective. Jolene's "Granny Gums" dies and leaves her enough money to open her own beauty parlor in her hometown. Besides all three waitresses suddenly leaving simultaneously, by an amazing coincidence Mel has just sold the diner for a large amount of money to a real-estate developer and must close within days. On closing day, he surprisingly gives each waitress a $5,000 farewell bonus.

Linda Lavin was a big ass deal during the taping of the series Alice. Linda was the highest paid performer in a half-hour series at that time.

R403 I think CBS canceled the series. Lavin and the cast were willing to go on, but the ratings didn’t justify it. Interesting they totally left Ladd out of the clips they showed in the finale. Oversight or deliberate? Anyway at least they had a finale, unlike some other shows.

Diane Ladd didn't get along with the cast and production of the TV series Alice. Her departure was a mutual decision.

Alice got a recording contract in Nashville? Really?! So if Alice Hyatt had been real and went on to a recording career would she have challenged Madonna, Whitney and Janet at the top of the charts with her unique blend of country/Broadway/lounge music in the mid to late 80s? Would Janbot be attacking Alice instead of Madonna here at DL in an attempt to defend his favorite diva?

Hyatt would have been way too old for MTV.

They didn't have Polly come back for the series finale. Perhaps the showrunners approached Lavin about it, and the yelling could be heard all over the lot.

^^ there were flashbacks to Flo on Alice during that last episode

R346- I went to a Danny Bonaduce concert one time.

We'll never know what really happened to Phillip, I guess. Usually the truth filters down to the masses eventually, but on this subject people are tight-lipped.

Beth Howland died of lung cancer. She loved cigarettes.

[quote]Alice got a recording contract in Nashville? Really?! So if Alice Hyatt had been real and went on to a recording career would she have challenged Madonna, Whitney and Janet at the top of the charts...

Ha, that's a good one.

She'd have released a demo; her contract would've been dropped; and she'd have been lucky to play the Nashville Holiday Inn lounge down by the interstate - in an emergency when the regular talent didn't show...

[quote]On closing day, he surprisingly gives each waitress a $5,000 farewell bonus.

Well, I never got $5 from Mel Sharples that I didn't work my fanny off for...much less $5,000!

And you know what I have to say about that, Mel...

[quote] Beth Howland died of lung cancer.

There are worser ways to go, IMHO.

[quote]^^ there were flashbacks to Flo on Alice during that last episode

Polly Holliday was well-liked by production...even years after she'd left the show

[quote]There are worser ways to go, IMHO.

Dying ignorant of standard grammar being one of them...

R419- I believe she's wearing a RUG in that photo.

Pancreatic cancer is frequently asymptomatic until Stage 4....

I've known people who've died of pancreatic cancer only a few weeks after being diagnosed.

One friend of mine said her only symptom was stomach pain.

Beth got her nose bobbed in the 1950s. I wonder if she got it done for the movie of Lil Abner.

When Bonnie Franklin received her diagnosis it truly would have been appropriate for her to say-

Hold me DAVID!

Anyone have a clip or know which episode it was where they were all throwing water in Vera's face as she cried. I believe, for a very very short time, the included in the opening credits.

That always bothered me as a small child cause I could sense Vera was "different" and they were bullying her.

Sometimes Beth Howland’s face was skeleton like. Her teeth were tall too

I remember when Linda Lavin was cast in “Bogart Slept Here”, before it all ended badly (yes, I’m old!)

R425, I always suspected she suffered from anorexia nervosa....

I guess Beth's daughter got Beth's original nose.

I imagine Charles Kimbrough developed a fear of fellatio.

R430 is that all that’s on your mind??

if it needs dermabrasion.

I like Carrie Sharples. She doesn’t take any of Mel’s shit

Does Lavin have any children, or did her ego preclude them?

My many fans are my children.

R425 she kind of reminded me of Julie Hagerty, but not pretty (but equally annoying).

They should have gotten Vic Tayback to play one of the Golden Girls’ many suitors. Who would it have been? Dorothy or Blanche? I can’t see him with Rose.

Damn. Julie Hagerty was a mess.

[Quote] In 1991, she starred alongside Fran Drescher and Twiggy in Princesses, a sitcom that aired for five weeks on CBS. Hagerty had walked off set after four episodes amid poor ratings and negative reviews. She was cast in the 1994 Designing Women spin-off Women of the House, but was committed to another project when filming began, so Valerie Mahaffey substituted for her in several episodes. She eventually joined the cast, filmed two episodes, and resigned, handing the role back to Mahaffey

Linda Lavin - Stars Would Fall

Her Rose in Gypsy wasn't a total mess. She had her inspired moments, but the performance lacked a certain energy and humor. She sang the role better than Tyne, but hers wasn't a performance you remembered much about after leaving the theater. I can still remember the way Tyne delivered several of the lines, but Linda didn't create the same memories.

Wasn't Lavin going through a divorce at the time? Did she have a pill problem?

I just watched the Cabin Fever episode in season 4 of Alice. It’s fucking hilarious. They all go to a cabin in the woods for the weekend and a tornado is headed straight for the cabin. Flo has a lot of great barbs at Mel.

R443 fun episode. I loved the Marie character, Mel’s on and off again gf. I think Marie just stopped appearing eventually. She could’ve been used in more episodes during the latter part of the series when the show got worse.

I had never seen the first version of the Alice credits at r358 until just now--it's the other Tommy 9from the movie?), so this must just be for the pilot episode. He's amazing even back then Lavin was putting in jazz 'scallops" on her singing (especially at "...lookin' GOOD!"). It's odd that she was kind of pretty back then.

There's a weird brief moment at :38 when she's trying to pull one of Tommy's boots off and at first I instantly thought it showed Tommy orgasming as he takes his mother from behind, which was a bit of a shock. But then i realized what it was.

Celia Weston is phenomenal in "Dead Man Walking" as the mother of one of the murdered children. There's a great scene where she and her husband have brought Sister Helen Prejean (Susan Sarandon) into their home, thinking she's on their side in having Sean Penn executed, and then first Sister Helen realizes their mistake and then they do--it's one of those scenes that requires first-rate actors, and both Sarandon and Weston are up to it.

[quote]The official story is that they were thinking of a long run and wanted to go younger on the kid so they could prolong a certain phase with him. Lutter was 13-14 at the time the pilot and first season were shot, and McKeon 11.

Alfred Lutter reportedly also hit a growth spurt between the pilot and the start of filming for the first season, making him no longer plausible as a tween boy.

Weston is a terrific character actress and has been able to work steadily in theater, film and television. Alice is the least of her accomplishments.

Celia Weston is one of those very lucky actresses whose career got better as she got older. That's a rare thing.

Well, character actresses tend to work more the older they get. Maybe not huge roles, but good roles. I have never understood why Mary Louise Wilson could not take advantage of that, especially during her renaissance in the late 1990s and on. She had a HUGE success with Full Gallop, followed by a first Tony nom a year later in Cabaret, a handful of Off-Broadway roles and then the Tony for Grey Gardens, but the best she was able to muster during that in film and tv was a one-off guest shot on The Sopranos and a tiny role in the film Nebraska. And she absolutely should have played the role that June Squibb played in that film, instead. Squibb is a terrible actress. Seriously awful. Her Oscar nom was one of the worst I've ever seen. And she's gone on to work continuously since, always being terrible. Whereas MLW has done precious little. I also know MLW and she is a delight to work with, so I know it's not because she's a pain in the ass.

[quote]Would Linda Lavin play Mrs. Brice in FUNNY GIRL?

Lavin is 84 years old. She would make the current Mrs. Paroo in "The Music Man" seem, well, youngish.

Alfred Lutter was very good in the film. I believe he received second billing the tv pilot and McKeon did as well in the first season. When it became clear that McKeon did not have the ability that Lutter did, his role diminished and he wound up next to last in the credits before Holliday's 'And' credit.

Lutter looked like a little brainiac and he ended up with a Masters in management and engineering from Stanford.

He was pretty funny in "Love and Death,"

Alas, no *Starring*, r452.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Stop knitting your brow, Jodie.

A thought: how did we not get an American version of Keeping Up Appearances circa 1994 with Linda?

Also, one more digression: the cast of Women of the House was wall-to-wall women making their second or third chances. What was the mindset there?

[quote]There are interviews with Arthur Laurents where the Rose in Gypsy of 1989 production were said to be considered amongst Shirley MacLaine, Carol Burnett, Liza Minnelli, Patti LuPone (before the Jolson Sings Again feud) and Lainie Kazan.

I doubt Shirley or Carol would have been interested in doing eight shows a week at that time. Shirley was still a big name in movies and Carol was working on her comeback series for NBC.

Lainie would have been interesting, but could she sell tickets?

Tyne Daly was a good choice. She had a built-in audience of housewives due to Cagney and Lacey's success, and it was an intriguing choice, as Daly was not well known for her musical prowess. But as Tyne said, she had an uphill battle as she had to convince audiences that it wasn't going to be Mary Beth Lacey performing Gypsy.

Now if she could sing, the one who I think would have worked as Rose would have been Mary Tyler Moore.

Daly was fucking pissed when CBS offered the TV movie to Bette Midler.

I guess, R 446, but I still wouldn't want to get anywhere near the dirty pantyhose of any of the main women mentioned in this thread.

There hasn't been much mention of Linda's face work, but it would appear she's had some. That horizontal line just under the nose tells it.

MLW may be nice to you when you worked with her, but her book and that doc about her make her sound complaining.

Just a couple of additions to the list of great Celia Weston: the matriarch of the North Carolina family in Junebug (which got Amy Adams her first Oscar nomination). Also, she played a nurse practitioner in rural Mississippi in one of those occasional "field trip" episodes of ER, this one a showcase for Eriq La Salle's Dr. Benton. She stole it away with a really lovely performance.

I remember thinking Linda was alarmingly thin during her Gypsy run. It was during her divorce and she didn't seem happy.

Was Linda Lavin the Lea Michelle of her day?

Jealousy and feuds occurred among the cast of "227," "The Golden Girls" anytime there is more than one bitch on stage.

Mary Louise Wilson is ninety years old which is a good reason to not be working a lot.

She was not a good choice for the half-baked Roundabout revival of "On the Twentieth Century" when Jackie Hoffman or Mary Testa would have been so much better.

I absolutely love the Spanish style bungalow Linda and her husband bought in Toluca Lake.

If I lived in L.A. this is exactly the type of house I'd love to live in.

Does she have an alibi for when Philip McKeon died?

[quote]My many fans are my children.

My fans? Those losers...what the fuck are you tawking about?

My incomparable voice and my acting talent are my children...

I've nurtured them and watched them grow...

The entire cast is dead except Linda.

She's taking the final bow as she's always wanted.

And calling me dead is BRAZEN category fraud!

[quote]The entire cast is dead except Linda. She's taking the final bow as she's always wanted.

Listen Diane, that's just the pitch used to ask the network to reboot the show.

Picture it: "Alice: The One Woman Show with Original Music by Linda Lavin"

"There's a new girl in town with a titanium hip...a fresh face lift and some valve replacements"

"She was just passing through...but she's a little incontinent and needs to use your restroom...for a while"

"Bomp Pomp Bomp Pomp Pa..."

"Hey, I STILL GOT IT!"

"Picture this - Alice Hyatt buys the old Mel's Diner in Phoenix and turns it into an elegant Lounge to finally showcase her God-given talent that she's never had the opportunity to pursue."

"The lights come up and I'm wearing an elegant sequined off-the-shoulder gown, sitting behind a beautiful grand piano...and I begin to sing..."

When Alice nosedived from the top 10 in the ratings to the bottom 10 in mere months (a feat few other series have repeated), this article did some thorough filth-reading:

"Alice is a classic example, perhaps the best to date, of an unremarkable series that owed its existence largely to a solid gold time slot."

"Sources at CBS say Linda Lavin, the star of Alice, was difficult to deal with in recent years. Moving the show to Wednesday night was in part a punishment, they say."

"Alice's cancellation may be the quickest demise ever of a show that was a hit yesterday." (The show was actually pulled temporarily, not canceled, unfortunately.)

Meow, r476! They really had it in for our dear Linda.

"Lavin recently remarried and had reportedly lost some enthusiasm for the long-running show."

Just as her new husband soon lost some enthusiasm for Lavin.

I will always love her for how she sings "You've Got Possibilities" on the Superman OBC Album.

When Diane Ladd left the show, this widely syndicated TV critic had a few thoughts.

"Alice is a rotten television show, the producers and writers are miserable hacks, and a respectable performer with a certain amount of pride and dignity has no place working on such a piece of claptrap."

"Alice is an embarrassingly inept program, and ... Diane simply got tired of hating to go to work every day."

Also from R480's link: "Diane just doesn't like the show. She's a marvelous actress, and she's been deeply disappointed with most of the storylines and with some of the dialogue that they put in her mouth."

Had Diane not seen any of the episodes from the first three seasons before she signed on to join the cast? I mean, it was pretty obvious by the time she joined that the show was a steaming pile of crap.

"Alice" was not a crap show. It was amusing and had a great cast. The show is still watchable today.

Was/is Gary Deeb family? He's like a bitchier Tom Shales.

Gary apparently sold out big time when he started working for ABC in 1983.

The article at R476 is a little confusing to me. It's from early 1983. And it says Alice was canceled. But Alice ran until the spring of 1985. Was the cancellation rescinded?

R485, yes.

Gary Deeb was more snotty than bitchy. He would appear on the local news when I was a kid, he didn't seem queeny, just miserable and a snob, about television of all thing!

I always think Linda is hated more than Bonnie for two reasons: (1) though also a singer, Bonnie did not attempt to sing the theme song and only performed at the follies for her mother's nursing home every year, and (2) as soon as you came across Ann Romano, you thought "bitch" because of the scowl and the giant mushroom haircuts and the constant shouting; but most people started "Alice" thinking Alice Hyatt would be nice, because she was smiley and prettier. But after a while you'd discover she was just as shrill and strident (although at least she didn't hit anyone).

Thankfully, Linda never went braless like Bonnie did.

R488, but I always went sans panties...unless you count my 'pubic diaper' as a set of underwear. Seriously it was the size of a slice of New York pizza

Linda was fascinating in Gypsy and I think Sondheim said she was probably the closest to the real Rose. Her rages and foot stomping were terrifying. She lacked the necessary charm but it was brave of her to focus on the dark side of the woman and she certainly wasn’t boring.

[quote]The entire cast is dead except Linda. She's taking the final bow as she's always wanted.

[quote]We beg to differ, R470—Diane L. and Celia W.

Those two aren't the only ones you forgot. You can kiss my grits, R270.

It's R470, Flo. So stow it!

I loved all the celebrities who guest-starred on Alice, playing themselves. Art Carney, Dinah Shore, Jerry Reed, George Burns, Robert Goulet, Telly Savalas, Joel Grey. ❤

I really hope Polly outlives this cunt.

Did Joel Grey as “himself” make a pass at Flo?

^ No, but he asked if Tawwhmee would massage his feet too.

Her second husband must have hated her. She made quite a cunty statement about the divorce settlement.

[quote]In a statement issued through her lawyer, Ms. Lavin said: "This husband made no contributions as a husband or as a father or to my career, and so he was not at all entitled to alimony, support or property. Mr. Niven lived very well during the marriage. Any decent person would have said, 'Thanks, I screwed up,' and walked away."

[quote]Mr. Niven gave up claims to the couple's Central Park West apartment, said to be worth $1.25 million, and a $300,000 weekend home in Chincoteague, Va.

[quote]"Mr. Niven is pleased with the result," said his lawyer, MONA R. MILSTEIN, "though obviously this was not amicable."

A friend of mine saw Lavin in the revival of Candide at NYCO in 2017, and he said she was the best thing about it, in the role of The Old Lady. He especially praised her acting in the big finale, which has some kind of botanical title ("I'll Plant My Own Tree"?).

R476, I like the statement in that article that Alice was for awhile dependent on being scheduled after One Day at a time to be a hit show. So Bonnie Franklin is the reason why, in part, Linda Lavin had a hit show!

It’s really incredible it stayed in the top 10 during the the early Weston years when it was unwatchable. People, I guess, were just in that groove of watching these four sitcoms, which had been on since the mid 70s. Same thing with Threes Company. The ratings didn’t fall to the bottom immediately after Somers left and Barnes joined. It stayed a pretty solid hit for awhile.

[quote]It's amazing that in [R358]'s reel of every intro of the series (10, I believe), the only shot that is in EVERY SINGLE ONE is Vera and the STRAWS! No wonder Beth Howland carried a box of straws in her purse wherever she went so that she would be ready for the fans.

It's also interesting that the iconic straws bit occurred in the very first episode. I wonder if that rankled Linda for 10 years.

Lavin's career is based on the fact that people were too lazy to get off their couches and switch the channel in the days before widespread remote controls.

It's amazing to think what shows were big hits back in the days of only three networks to choose from and no internet. Some of the hit shows of the past wouldn't last one season today, because of more and better entertainment options.

Remote controls were pretty common by the time "Alice" debuted.

Yeah, remote controls were the youngest kid in the family or the kid who sat closest to the TV set.

I had a remote control tv in my bedroom as a child and watched Alice

[quote] Remote controls were pretty common by the time "Alice" debuted.

We didn't have a remote until we got cable. And we didn't get cable until Aug of 1981, when we moved into a neighborhood that was wire for it. We had ONTV until then.

I LOVE Linda's new house in Toluca Lake. If I lived in that area, that would be the perfect house for me.

Advances in remote control technology and availabilty were clearly in response to the supposed popularity of Alice.

Linda Lavin and Bonnie Franklin threads never disappoint. They've been DL staples for as long as I've been here.

Did Linda ever get her tits out on the cover of PEOPLE magazine? No, but Bonnie sure as fuck did!

Y'all rag on Bonnie's looks but that co-star...

"Yes, I'd like the new issue of People. And please put it in a brown paper bag."

The thought of guys masturbating to Bonnie Franklin is horrifying.

I had to laugh at "the Nobel sperm bank" was put right next to Mackenzie's ass on that cover. Somebody at PEOPLE magazine had a wicked sense of humor.

R518 I thought they were Star Search winners.

[quote]I LOVE Linda's new house in Toluca Lake

Toluca Lake is a scene you should make with your little one.

Posted on SitcomsOnline.com

[quote] believe the third season when the feud between Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday started to blow open. The show took off and that was their best season. In fourth season it was full tilt. People were watching the show for Flo not Alice. In the fourth season you can the tension between those two by the way they interacted with each other on camera. There weren't too many scenes they had together as they did in the early seasons because of the tension. Look at some of the episodes fo that season and you would see Linda rolling her eyes at Polly when she gets a laugh.

[quote] Even before I knew about the feud, I did start picking up on a little tension in season 4 (1979-80), Flo's last season. I particularly remember a very good episode where Mel installed a time clock and the waitresses were picketing the Diner. Whenever Flo would get a big laugh, Alice would look away, roll her eyes and sigh, appearing irritated. It was really a shame, too, because I actually think they did some of their best scenes together. They played off of each other's characters really well IMO. That season was when their feud went full tilt. You did not see them in many scenes together compared to earlier seasons. The same tension got passed to Diane Ladd who did a great job filling the shoes. I understood when Ruth Buzzi guest starred on the show Linda Lavin was threatened by her and letting her know that she is the star. What a shame. Linda would not have lasted on any of Norman Lear nor MTM shows because they were both ensemble cast where not one particular star shined.

[quote] Linda would not have lasted on any of Norman Lear nor MTM shows because they were both ensemble cast where not one particular star shined

Excuse me?

Linda's second husband, Kip Niven, was a total cunt.

Can you imagine how many times she rehearsed and performed that theme song over the years trying to achieve "perfection?"

In retrospect, each iteration only confirmed and reinforced her delusions of grandeur.

We all have our blind spots, but [italic]Good Lawd![/italic] talk about a lack of self-awareness.

I believe the color of the Alice theme logo was shit brown in season 2. Why?

Brown was popular in the 1970s.

[quote]I believe the color of the Alice theme logo was shit brown in season 2. Why?

Linda loved scat

Bonnie had a huge lesbianic following, including groupies who got mushroom haircuts and frantically masturbated to her braless "People" cover.

Esther Rolle went through the same thing on Good Times. Overshadowed, like Lavin, by co stars who played their roles strictly for laughs. Thinking it was THEIR shows, but not realizing that, with more people watching because of Polly and Jimmie, it benefited everyone connected with the shows by sharing the wealth. I guess it’s kind of an ego blasting thing. But it’s a chance you take with every series. Acting like a cunt never helps.

I sensed attitude with Rosie's request to Linda to sing the theme in the clip r528 posted.

R287 LOL. I love that Jackie Beat responded to that Instagram post about this DL thread

Esther Rolle was evil and loved voodoo.

Esther's complaint was a little different. She felt the show tilted too much into buffoonery, and she said she'd signed on to explore the problems of inner city Blacks and the family unit. It wasn't petty like Linda the Cunt.

To this day, if you book Jimmie "J.J." Walker for a club date or any personal appearance gig

his contract rider says he will only say the phrase "Dynomite" for an additional fee

i'm pretty sure that no matter how awful Kip Niven was to Lavin, I'd take his side.

Linda provided you ingrates with countless hours of pleasure on stage and tv. All all you do is call her bitch.

^ If it comes out of a cow's ass, I ain't gonna call it a rose!

Flo gave her flower to so many men. She was so dirty!

[quote] Linda provided you ingrates with countless hours of pleasure on stage and tv.

Oh, I think those hours are definitely countable.

[quote] All all you do is call her bitch.

Wrong. We call her CUNT!

[quote] Oh, I think those hours are definitely countable.

I'm not sure you can actually count to zero.

[quote]Flo gave her flower to so many men. She was so dirty!

Chef Monica, honey, I don't know you...and you don't know me.

But I ain't never once forced my "rose" on any man.

That's what a third grade education will get you, Florence Jean. No one said "forced."

^ The reference to "force" means it was between two consenting adults - and you weren't one of them, Cunt!

^ Looks like Linda and her publicists finally got a Google alert about this thread!

[quote] Bonnie had a huge lesbianic following, including groupies who got mushroom haircuts and frantically masturbated to her braless "People" cover.

We called ourselves "Bon-heads" after Bonnie!

We had all kinds of chapters all over the country in the 70s and early 80s. I was vice-president of my hometown's chapter back in high school in rural Minnesota.

[quote]“Linda, the Cunt”-A memoir

That subject is too extensive to cover in one book.

I remember seeing Bonnie as a high school student on Gidget when the Mesothelioma channels started showing it. She looked 35 back then.

Is someone trying to steer the conversation away from Linda's long history of cuntiness...

My, my, what an interesting development...

Marlo is the queen cunt emeritus.

Not only a cunt but a self-important cunt!

Why didn't they give Linda Lavin a sassy catchphrase on Alice?

They told her a sassy song was more than enough.

The lead almost never had a sassy catchphrase in the 70s. I can think of only a few sitcom leads who did: Maude ("God'll get you for that...") and Archie Bunker ("STIFLE!").

R536 true. I only meant Esther and Linda had similar issues, but for different reasons. They expected Ralph Carter to be breakout star of GT, the cute kid with all the pro black propaganda. Something tells me that would’ve irked Esther too. Even if the show would’ve clicked all the PC boxes, she probably would’ve felt a young kid was overshadowing her. Esther had her cunty wants too. Her and Amos openly complained about the show in print. Biting that hands that feeds you when it could’ve been worked on behind the scenes was the right thing to do. This ended with Amos being let go. Lavin probably out cunted her with petty stuff like counting who had the most lines of dialogue and if Polly had one more she threw a fit.

People were watching Alice for Flo, not Linda, and Linda was PISSED. You could see the tension between them on the show.

It was the age-old story of a supporting character becoming the breakout star of the show. Sometimes the star of the show realizes it's "good for business" and just rolls with it, like Michael Gross and Meredith Baxter did on Family Ties when Michael J. Fox became a huge sensation, and Marion Ross and Tom Bosley did when Henry Winkler became the breakout star of Happy Days. Then there's cunts like Linda who threw a fit and wanted the bitch off the show.

Valerie Harper was pissed when Jason Bateman became the breakout star of her sitcom, and of course we all know about Marla Gibbs and Jackee on 227. Gibbs and Jackee made up years later and are now good friends.

I'm of two minds about the Good Times situation. One, I can understand that Rolle and Amos thought they were going do a show that sheds some light on the plight of black working class people and it turned into somewhat of another minstrel show where the stereotypical character becomes the breakout. I get why they were disappointed and felt somewhat let down.

Two, shut up, take the money, enjoy life in the top ten and for any guilty feelings, donate to some charities to help you sleep at night.

Rolle actually left the show because she hated the direction in which it went. When the ratings started to tank, they lured her back for the final season but it was too late by then.

I get the feeling Rolle wasn’t the most diplomatic. She probably bulldozed her way into meetings with Norman Lear and the producers of the show while not understanding the fact you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Granted, JJ could be ridiculous sometimes. But going to Ebony magazine and blasting the show wasn’t going to help her or Amos’s plight. Amos has admitted he was a hot head around this time and would handle it differently now. The producers always run the show. You do your best to change it and if you can’t change it you work within the confines of it. Or leave. It’s sitcom work not a cure for cancer. She ended up leaving and costing herself a years salary and the show never got its mojo back.

But she eventually got the lucrative Spiritual Psychic Helpline gig.

Um, I'll still need the extra money if you want me to the say the word that begins with a "D"

Did the TV Guide artist hate her?

^ When you're trying to draw Linda Lavin and you take a wrong turn at Didi Conn.

She looks like a Flintstone but it’s still not like she was Stockard Channing-d.

That looks more like Bernadette Peters.

Linda looks like Michele Lee at r566.

What did Linda Lovelace think of Linda Lavin?

Why does Flo look like Wilma Flintstone at R566? Do you think Linda had a meltdown because she had to share a cover with just Flo?

Do you think Beth Howland secretly plotted against Linda and Polly?

Her straw technique is pretty iconic.

Beth decided she would chain smoke in front of Linda and ruin her voice by secondhand smoke.

The joke was on Beth. Linda's voice was already terrible.

[quote]She looks like a Flintstone but it’s still not like she was Stockard Channing-d.

I love how the cartoon version of Stockard includes the bags under her eyes even though she was playing a teenager.

Have Stockard Channing and Linda Lavin ever met? And, more importantly, do they hate each other?

R573 you’re tiresome with the straw bit, it’s more than obvious by your insistence on referencing the clip that you didn’t watch the show more than one episode or you’d know the character of Vera wasn’t limited to the straws you constantly reference.

Stockard Loves Rita but not Chita

Can you believe this is a real quote from a guy on Youtube. Or is it Linda Lavin posting about herself?

[quote] I totally hit puberty watching Alice as a kid, had such a crush on Linda Lavin

[quote] I totally hit puberty watching Alice as a kid, had such a crush on Linda Lavin

In the late '70s and early '80s, lots of teenage boys had posters of Linda Lavin on their bedroom walls.

R580 Right next to their lunch lady posters?

This is probably where that guy's crush started.

This is the fastest moving Linda thread I have seen in a while. We are approaching 600!

Why did Linda sport that dykey looking buzz cut the final season of Alice?

R582, I wonder if Linda demanded that Kermit introduce her as the Lovely Miss Linda Lavin, or else she wouldn't do the show?

R585 She’s holding a gun down below on the puppeteer out of the camera range.

[quote] I totally hit puberty watching Alice as a kid, had such a crush on Linda Lavin

Tell me you’re a flaming homosexual without telling me you’re a flaming homosexual

Do you ever think Linda lurks around the internet, comes to a thread like this and eventually figures, "Well, at least I'm not Bonnie Franklin."

Linda had the Nastiest Person on Broadway Thread nuked.

This thread is proof that Linda Lavin is not simply a DL fave, but a DL LEGEND and just a LEGEND in general.

Even Madonna cannot get to 600 posts anymore.

Linda needs to go on a world tour pronto!!!

I watched Alice, and do think she was a bit much.

But Linda’s really good in almost everything. She was great in her guest role on Mom and the Good Wife and a bunch of other stuff.

The stirring finale of LOVE, LINDA is the 20-minute remix of "New Girl in Town."

Only Linda Lavin can max out a thread these days.

Do you think Bonnie Franklin ever turned to Linda during that Hal Linden special and said, 'I made you!' Because of ODAAT's keeping Alice afloate in the ratings?

Even better, she turns to Linda and says, "....KISS MY SHITS!"

Then follows it up with an, "OHHHMYYYYYGODDDDDDD..."

Who had the tighter snatch, Linda or Bonnie?

Alice at 9:00 Eastern got better numbers than One Day at a Time at 8:30 for five seasons. I think if anyone was going to tell someone "I made you," it would be Carroll O'Connor telling it to Bonnie.

Honestly, Mike Wallace could tell it to all of them. 60 Minutes put a lot of blankets on the CBS lawn on Sundays.

It's not much to go by, but the only people I knew who were very enthusiastic about One Day at a Time were boys in school who wanted to see Valerie Bertinelli at peak hotness. Bonnie, Mackenzie, and the guy in the denim vest were like the vegetables they forced down to get dessert.

Do you think Linda threw her hat into the ring to play Fanny Brice in Funny Girl?

I really think Linda Lavin owes it to Mackenzie Phillips; people only tuned in to ODAAT to see how drunk or stoned she was going to be.

ovah!!!scooobydooolalala!

ncG1vNJzZmivp6x7pa3TmqOorZ6csm%2BvzqZmraCimq6le5JqaG5xYGiFbsPHsmSiq12htq%2BwwGajmq6Zo3qprdOem2Y%3D